FBI on the trail of Sobig virus author

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

Post by Gerald Newton
I just read that the FBI is on the trail of the author of the Sobig virus
and is supposed to be making an arrest shortly. I think these virus writers
should get 20 years mandatory in a Federal Penitentiary.

Of course, it could be argued that those stupid enough to execute it
shoudl receive a dunce cap and be made to sit in the corner.

Gerald Newton

2003-08-23 04:31:40 UTC

Post by W.S. Blevins
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

Of course, it could be argued that those stupid enough to execute it
shoudl receive a dunce cap and be made to sit in the corner.

Hey, numbskull, I didn't execute the virus, but my business has received
thousands of Sobig's emails. They have cost me sales and money. I can't
wait for the FBI to nab this person and put him in jail. He is done for! I
hope to have an opportunity to testify.

Michael Yates

2003-08-23 09:16:25 UTC

you should have anti-virus software. The hackers should be paid to do this.
Its the software companies who are writing crap sotware with security loops
who should be locked up.
--
Regards

Michael C Yates
My Football Forum - World Wide Football Forums
http://www.myfootballforum.com

(¯`·._.· All Outgoing Mail Scanned With Norton Anti-Virus 2003 ·._.·Ž¯)

Post by W.S. Blevins
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

Post by Gerald Newton
I just read that the FBI is on the trail of the author of the Sobig virus
and is supposed to be making an arrest shortly. I think these virus

writers

Post by Gerald Newton
should get 20 years mandatory in a Federal Penitentiary.

Of course, it could be argued that those stupid enough to execute it
shoudl receive a dunce cap and be made to sit in the corner.

Post by Gerald Newton
hope to have an opportunity to testify.

Gerald Newton

2003-08-23 16:35:10 UTC

I have antivirus software. This does not stop the emails from coming
through.
Like I said this virus has cost a lot of money but the culprit will be
caught and prosecuted under the new terrorism laws.
Homeland Security is involved. You people that think this is the fault a of
the software companies are way out of line. The virus was a deliberate
attempt to disrupt the normal flow of business and cause a loss in revenue
for many hard working people.

Post by Michael Yates
you should have anti-virus software. The hackers should be paid to do this.
Its the software companies who are writing crap sotware with security loops
who should be locked up.
--
Regards
Michael C Yates
My Football Forum - World Wide Football Forums
http://www.myfootballforum.com
(¯`·._.· All Outgoing Mail Scanned With Norton Anti-Virus 2003 ·._.·Ž¯)

Post by W.S. Blevins
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

Post by Gerald Newton
I just read that the FBI is on the trail of the author of the Sobig

virus

Post by Gerald Newton
and is supposed to be making an arrest shortly. I think these virus

writers

Post by Gerald Newton
should get 20 years mandatory in a Federal Penitentiary.

Of course, it could be argued that those stupid enough to execute it
shoudl receive a dunce cap and be made to sit in the corner.

Post by Gerald Newton
hope to have an opportunity to testify.

Metal Cyber Man

2003-08-24 12:28:05 UTC

Boo Hoo

Rebecca Chua Enriquez

2003-08-24 02:15:13 UTC

Oh, yes. Let's pass a law that says if you don't lock your house you are
liable for criminal charges if someone burglarizes you. What a bunch of
"loop" logic.

Metal Cyber Man

2003-08-24 12:28:55 UTC

No but I would lock up the guy who designed my house security.

Pourquoi tant d'étoiles pour si peu de trèfles à quatre feuilles ?

2003-08-23 13:53:52 UTC

Post by W.S. Blevins
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

Hey, numbskull, I didn't execute the virus, but my business has
received thousands of Sobig's emails. They have cost me sales and
money. I can't wait for the FBI to nab this person and put him in
jail. He is done for! I hope to have an opportunity to testify.

So, not only the virus cost you sales and money but you aggree to pay for 20
years in a federal jail in addition ?

What are the penalty in the US for a drunkman who kill a innocent baby in a
car crash ?

Ye ! I understand : the live of a baby is nothing in comparison of the money
you lost...

Capitalism ? Liberalism ?

--
Jean-Luc Cavey
Paris, France
E-Mail : ***@alussinan.org

Gerald Newton

2003-08-23 16:38:04 UTC

Post by Pourquoi tant d'Ã©toiles pour si peu de trÃ¨fles Ã quatre feuilles ?

"Pourquoi tant d'étoiles pour si peu de trèfles à quatre feuilles ?"

Post by W.S. Blevins
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

Hey, numbskull, I didn't execute the virus, but my business has
received thousands of Sobig's emails. They have cost me sales and
money. I can't wait for the FBI to nab this person and put him in
jail. He is done for! I hope to have an opportunity to testify.

So, not only the virus cost you sales and money but you aggree to pay for 20
years in a federal jail in addition ?
What are the penalty in the US for a drunkman who kill a innocent baby in a
car crash ?
Ye ! I understand : the live of a baby is nothing in comparison of the money
you lost...
Capitalism ? Liberalism ?
--
Jean-Luc Cavey
Paris, France

The virus writer is a terrorist and is being sought by the USA Homeland
Security people and the FBI. He will be caught and he will go to jail. It
is a very simple rule, write a virus and release it on the Internet and
cause havoc and you will be caught and you will go to jail.

Chuck

2003-08-23 16:42:07 UTC

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:53:52 +0200, Pourquoi tant d'étoiles pour si peu de

Post by Pourquoi tant d'Ã©toiles pour si peu de trÃ¨fles Ã quatre feuilles ?
Ye ! I understand : the live of a baby is nothing in comparison of the money
you lost...

Alas, in this country at this time, that's the way it is.

CGNeal777

2003-08-23 03:25:54 UTC

Why are these worm/virus writers sometimes treated as heroes?

If someone released a deadly virus at a university, is that person a hero?
Yet we treat people who release computer viruses at schools as
ultra-intelligent.

These virus/worm writers can be caught by the FBI because:
1) They always make mistakes.
2) They often leave "fingerprints" in style.
3) They often brag.
4) The source code is usually if not always in their possession.
5) The first delivery of the virus is a one-time gateway to the author.
6) They sometimes keep coming back for more.

Can we stop treating them as heroes and start treating them as criminals as you
suggest?
Prosecuting people, as long as there is sufficient proof, works.

Suicide bombers are called heroes and so new people are recruited. So what if
they are innovative in the way they kill? So what if they are cleverly
effective?

Regarding the GoBig.F worm:
1) Maybe one, perhaps 2, of the 40 addresses is accessible to the author or is
known to the author.
2) An 8-bit key is inviting decryption.
3) Calling the GoBig.F worm "powerless" and describing it as having "fizzled"
just doesn't work. Only successful people react to something having fizzled.
4) The best software authors do not waste their effort writing viruses, so this
author has proven themself as what they are.

Can we start refering to virus writers as what they really are?

n***@zilch.com

2003-08-23 10:45:54 UTC

Post by CGNeal777
Why are these worm/virus writers sometimes treated as heroes?

It's the weirdness of this period of history. From my perspective it
started in the early sixties. Movies such as Easy Rider and the
glorification of druggies, dropouts, and criminal psychopaths.

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

W.S. Blevins

2003-08-23 10:51:27 UTC

Post by n***@zilch.com
It's the weirdness of this period of history. From my perspective it
started in the early sixties. Movies such as Easy Rider and the
glorification of druggies, dropouts, and criminal psychopaths.

Yeah yeah, blame it on Fonda and Hopper. Those bastards.

n***@zilch.com

2003-08-23 11:02:02 UTC

Yeah yeah, blame it on Fonda and Hopper. Those bastards.

I said nothing concerning the _cause_ of the weirdness.... merely that
it exists. Nor do I blame anyone or anything in particular for the
phenomenon. But I do hold people responsible for their actions. That
makes me the oddball in these insane times of irresponsibilty.

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

W.S. Blevins

2003-08-23 11:21:24 UTC

Post by n***@zilch.com
I said nothing concerning the _cause_ of the weirdness.... merely that
it exists. Nor do I blame anyone or anything in particular for the
phenomenon. But I do hold people responsible for their actions. That
makes me the oddball in these insane times of irresponsibilty.

Bullshit. It was Fonda and Hopper. The conspiracy is all oout in the
open now.

n***@zilch.com

2003-08-23 13:39:05 UTC

Bullshit. It was Fonda and Hopper. The conspiracy is all oout in the
open now.

No doubt Jane Fonda was part of it as well.

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

Michael Cecil

2003-08-23 11:29:03 UTC

Post by n***@zilch.com

Post by CGNeal777
Why are these worm/virus writers sometimes treated as heroes?

It's the weirdness of this period of history. From my perspective it
started in the early sixties. Movies such as Easy Rider and the
glorification of druggies, dropouts, and criminal psychopaths.

I don't get it. Who treats worm/virus writes as heroes? I've never
seen that. Yes, we see privacy advocates and hackers who decode
proprietary code held up as heroes, but that's because we see them as
defending personal liberties from giant corporations and governments.
However, I doubt you'll find even one admitted virus author being
defended by the EFF.

Also, there is a difference between recognizing a technically
proficient coder and calling them a hero.

--
Michael Cecil
***@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/howto/
http://home.comcast.net/~antiviruscd/

W.S. Blevins

2003-08-23 11:45:49 UTC

Post by Michael Cecil
Also, there is a difference between recognizing a technically
proficient coder and calling them a hero.

Blame Fonda and Hopper. They started it all.

kurt wismer

2003-08-23 14:47:38 UTC

Post by Michael Cecil
Also, there is a difference between recognizing a technically
proficient coder and calling them a hero.

Blame Fonda and Hopper. They started it all.

They need executing!

really? does anyone have a copy i could use, i can't find either of
those on my system....

--
"hungry people don't stay hungry for long
they get hope from fire and smoke as the weak grow strong
hungry people don't stay hungry for long
they get hope from fire and smoke as they reach for the dawn"

FromTheRafters

2003-08-24 02:36:25 UTC

Post by Michael Cecil
Also, there is a difference between recognizing a technically
proficient coder and calling them a hero.

Blame Fonda and Hopper. They started it all.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper.

http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Hopper.Danis.html

...but who is this Fonda character?

n***@zilch.com

2003-08-23 19:20:08 UTC

Post by Michael Cecil

Post by n***@zilch.com

Post by CGNeal777
Why are these worm/virus writers sometimes treated as heroes?

It's the weirdness of this period of history. From my perspective it
started in the early sixties. Movies such as Easy Rider and the
glorification of druggies, dropouts, and criminal psychopaths.

I don't get it. Who treats worm/virus writes as heroes? I've never
seen that. Yes, we see privacy advocates and hackers who decode
proprietary code held up as heroes, but that's because we see them as
defending personal liberties from giant corporations and governments.
However, I doubt you'll find even one admitted virus author being
defended by the EFF.
Also, there is a difference between recognizing a technically
proficient coder and calling them a hero.

Well, take the troll Laura Frederics here, for just one example among
many. You could rape her and she would insist that it was all her
fault. You see, it's always the victim's fault, never the perpetrator.
Victims are considered stupid. Perpetrators are glorified and
considered clever and wonderful. You see? Intrusions are always
justified one way or another in this Brave New Crazy World.

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

W.S. Blevins

2003-08-23 19:23:48 UTC

Post by n***@zilch.com
Well, take the troll Laura Frederics here, for just one example among
many. You could rape her and she would insist that it was all her
fault.

I disagree. I think it would ultimately be blamed on Fonda and Hopper.

-
This message is certified as virus free by ImSoFullOfShit Anti-Virus.
Feel free to click on any attachments. Go ahead. You know you want to.

FromTheRafters

2003-08-24 02:28:19 UTC

Post by n***@zilch.com

Post by CGNeal777
Why are these worm/virus writers sometimes treated as heroes?

It's the weirdness of this period of history. From my perspective it
started in the early sixties. Movies such as Easy Rider and the
glorification of druggies, dropouts, and criminal psychopaths.

Had you been older, you would have thought it started with
the Billy the Kid and Frank and Jesse James penny dreadfuls.

It probably goes back much much further than that.

Sugien

2003-08-23 04:19:05 UTC

To date I don't think anyone has ever served any jail time for having
either or both writing or releasing. I think one writer/releaser came close
to being given jail time; but the time they did get was for some sort of
reduced charge and only in the more indirect way possible connected with
writing or releasing the virus.

a question:
Suppose someone wrote a virus and prior to the invasion of Iraq that
virus penetrated Iraq's computer system. The payload of the virus was a
back door and the virus not only sent the locations of all military forces
and their strengths and locations; but also after sending the locations of
all WMD, it then shut down the air defenses of Iraq.
My question would be, would that virus writer be a hero or a villain?
Would they get a metal or a prison sentence. Would they get a rewarded or
be fined? IOW one persons mischievous and hurtful virus is another's
military resource/weapon. True the likelihood of this ever happening is
quite low. I do think the US Military is actively studying the benefits of
using computer virus against future enemy's prior to any conflict to either
take all the enemy's computer systems down to make and attack easer and less
costly.

--
/}
@###{ ]:::::::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::::::::>
\}
Live WebCam http://www.dino-soft.org/cam

Nick FitzGerald

2003-08-24 12:27:38 UTC

Post by Sugien
To date I don't think anyone has ever served any jail time for having
either or both writing or releasing. ...

Not ever heard of David Lee Smith then?

Writer and releaser of Melissa. True, he was not specifically charged with
writing and/or releasing a virus, but that fact he did is what got him
arrested, charged, tried and sentenced, and the scope of damage it caused
contributed to the length of sentence he received.

As you're a dumb-ass, red-neck yank you probably don't consider examples from
any other countries relevant, though you did not say you were limiting your
ignorance to the US, so also consider Chris Pile (aka the Black Baron) and
Simon Vallor, both of the UK. I doubt you could have missed all of the many
threads in the alt.comp.*virus groups over the years that have mentioned
Pile's case ad nauseum.

Of course, your grossly selective memory that only "recalls" things that meet
the "world according to the snivelling ignorance of red-neck USA" view would
prevent you from recalling any of these despite that you must have read at
least a few messages in related threads and probably even posted in some...

Post by Sugien
... I think one writer/releaser came close
to being given jail time; but the time they did get was for some sort of
reduced charge and only in the more indirect way possible connected with
writing or releasing the virus.

Wow -- what a mine of scintillating accuracy and readily checked information
you are...

<<snip mind-numbing stupidity>>

Post by Sugien
... I do think the US Military is actively studying the benefits of
using computer virus against future enemy's prior to any conflict to either
take all the enemy's computer systems down to make and attack easer and less
costly.

...as confirmed by your buddies from the typewriter service division no doubt.

--
Nick FitzGerald

Metal Cyber Man

2003-08-24 12:39:26 UTC

Do not forget all the french writers responsible of writing those really
shite french trojans

optikl

2003-08-24 14:17:27 UTC

Post by Metal Cyber Man
Do not forget all the french writers responsible of writing those really
shite french trojans

I've always preferred a good French Trojan to a Russian Backdoor.

Metal Cyber Man

2003-08-24 15:09:44 UTC

Cannot argue with that

Sla#s

2003-08-23 09:49:23 UTC

What is it about Americans that make them think jail is the answer to every
problem?
I read 1 in 37 adults have or are serving time in the US.
You currently incarcerate 2.1 million people!
(More per capita than any other country in the world)
This in the Land of the Free?
Why jail someone for virus writing, surely it would be better to get them to
do something more useful?
The very fact that they made the virus shows they are enthusiastic about
something. Do you think jail will make them a more enthusiastic and
productive citizen?

Slatts

W.S. Blevins

2003-08-23 10:12:26 UTC

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:49:23 +0100, "Sla#s"

Post by Sla#s
What is it about Americans that make them think jail is the answer to every
problem?

It's not and we don't. The preferred method is execution, but current
government laws rarely see it my way.

Michael Cecil

2003-08-23 10:58:23 UTC

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:49:23 +0100, "Sla#s"

Post by Sla#s
What is it about Americans that make them think jail is the answer to every
problem?

Leniency is bad? Personally, I would execute 99% of the people in
federal custody. I'd also do away with jury trials. And I'd nuke
countries that spell color as colour.

Post by Sla#s
I read 1 in 37 adults have or are serving time in the US.
You currently incarcerate 2.1 million people!

You are either very bad at math, or you think the US is much smaller
than it is.

--
Michael Cecil
***@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/howto/
http://home.comcast.net/~antiviruscd/

Ali

2003-08-23 13:59:37 UTC

Post by W.S. Blevins
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:49:23 +0100, "Sla#s"

Post by Sla#s
What is it about Americans that make them think jail is the answer to every
problem?

Leniency is bad? Personally, I would execute 99% of the people in
federal custody. I'd also do away with jury trials. And I'd nuke
countries that spell color as colour.

Don't forget immediate frying of uesnet folks who spell "definitely"
as "definately".
Kudos to the one who invents the interactive spellchecker that gives
a shock through the keyboard.....hell, maybe I'll do it....yeah, I'll
call it the Himmler autocorrecter...heavenly!....yeah, that's the
ticket.....

Post by Sla#s
I read 1 in 37 adults have or are serving time in the US.
You currently incarcerate 2.1 million people!

You are either very bad at math, or you think the US is much smaller
than it is.

You're the one who gets an "F" in reading comprehension, doofus. Go to
jail until you figger it out. His figgers are accurate.

optikl

2003-08-23 20:43:44 UTC

Post by Gerald Newton
I just read that the FBI is on the trail of the author of the Sobig virus
and is supposed to be making an arrest shortly. I think these virus

writers

Post by Gerald Newton
should get 20 years mandatory in a Federal Penitentiary.

No. It will make them a drain on taxpayers, who already pay a pretty high
premium for keeping the 1 in 37 you reference incarcerated.
I personally favor civil penalties (stiff fines) for this type of cyber
vandalism. And maybe a good beating with something that doesn't leave a lot
of marks .

FromTheRafters

2003-08-24 02:47:02 UTC

Post by Gerald Newton
I just read that the FBI is on the trail of the author of the Sobig virus
and is supposed to be making an arrest shortly. I think these virus

writers

Post by Gerald Newton
should get 20 years mandatory in a Federal Penitentiary.

What is it about Americans that make them think jail is the answer to every
problem?

Why is it that *all* non-Americans *always* have such a penchant for
making unsubstantiated generalizations!?

You wouldn't *ever* see an American doing that sort of thing!

Gabriele Neukam

2003-08-24 19:15:23 UTC

Post by FromTheRafters
Why is it that *all* non-Americans *always* have such a penchant for
making unsubstantiated generalizations!?
You wouldn't *ever* see an American doing that sort of thing!

So you must be a non-American, as your last sentence is a
generalization?

Gabriele Neukam

***@t-online.de

--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable theses days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

Quaternion

2003-08-24 20:03:30 UTC

Post by Gabriele Neukam

Post by FromTheRafters
Why is it that *all* non-Americans *always* have such a penchant for
making unsubstantiated generalizations!?
You wouldn't *ever* see an American doing that sort of thing!

So you must be a non-American, as your last sentence is a
generalization?

You must be german since you cannot grasp the concepts of sarcasm..
A german *woman* at that.

...
Quaternion

Gabriele Neukam

2003-08-24 22:09:41 UTC

Post by Quaternion

Post by Gabriele Neukam

Post by FromTheRafters
Why is it that *all* non-Americans *always* have such a penchant for
making unsubstantiated generalizations!?
You wouldn't *ever* see an American doing that sort of thing!

So you must be a non-American, as your last sentence is a
generalization?

You must be german since you cannot grasp the concepts of sarcasm..
A german *woman* at that.

Hey, I *was* sarcastic. That's why there is a question mark. Now it's
your turn again.

Gabriele Neukam

***@t-online.de

--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable theses days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

FromTheRafters

2003-08-25 01:03:00 UTC

Post by Gabriele Neukam

Post by FromTheRafters
Why is it that *all* non-Americans *always* have such a penchant for
making unsubstantiated generalizations!?
You wouldn't *ever* see an American doing that sort of thing!

So you must be a non-American, as your last sentence is a
generalization?

As was my first. <g>

I just thought I would through a little irony in this thread,
it needed....something.

Tetsuo

2003-08-23 10:23:34 UTC

Get fucking real.. It's the e-mail protocol that is at fault, not the people
that find the holes in its system. Crimes like these are constructive. 20
years...have you ever thought about how you would feel about getting 20
years? Don't just throw that around, it's ridiculous.

--
Tetsuo

kurt wismer

2003-08-23 14:50:32 UTC

Post by Gerald Newton
I just read that the FBI is on the trail of the author of the Sobig virus
and is supposed to be making an arrest shortly. I think these virus

writers

Post by Gerald Newton
should get 20 years mandatory in a Federal Penitentiary.

Get fucking real.. It's the e-mail protocol that is at fault, not the people
that find the holes in its system.

no, it's the people who *exploit* the holes who are at fault... no
software or technology is perfect, you can't blame a technology for
being imperfect... but you can blame people for being opportunists and
using those imperfections to do bad things...

Post by Gerald Newton
Crimes like these are constructive. 20
years...have you ever thought about how you would feel about getting 20
years? Don't just throw that around, it's ridiculous.

hitting a little too close to home or something?

--
"hungry people don't stay hungry for long
they get hope from fire and smoke as the weak grow strong
hungry people don't stay hungry for long
they get hope from fire and smoke as they reach for the dawn"

Ted Davis

2003-08-23 16:36:20 UTC

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:04:13 GMT, "Gerald Newton"

A more effective plan would be to give the twenty years to the people
dumb enough to launch the worm ... and put the authors of programs
that launch it automatically up against the wall even before the
revolution comes.

Taking the stupidest users out of circulation and putting severe
penalties on writing seriously vulnerable 'features' would likely have
more effect, though be more costly because of the millions of prison
cells needed and the hundreds (or thousands) of bullets required. Of
course, evolutionary pressures just might breed safer users, and more
careful and considerate programmers over time if that particular kind
of insensitive stupidity resulted in lower birth rates among those
with the characteristic.

T.E.D. (***@gearbox.maem.umr.edu - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig in the body)

unknown

2003-08-23 20:13:33 UTC